A Q & A talk given Jan. 18, 1964  in Washington, D.C.

QUESTION:  Master, will You speak to us on the three gunas or three qualities?

M:  These are the different states of mind, I would say. When a man is inclined for good things - compassion, love, sympathy, and helping others - when the ramifications of mind are inclined toward the good things, that is called satva. When you find some laziness, slothfulness, and putting things off for tomorrow - "We'll do it some other time" - that is called tamas or tamogun. And, when you are vehement in doing something and active, like taking over and exerting yourself (People have their own nature; some are exertive and pushing), that is called rajas. Those who are lazy, slothful, putting things off till tomorrow, lying down, and this and that- their state of mind is called tamas. And sometimes we are for normal things, good things: that is called satva.  These are three different attitudes of mind, you might say.

   So we are to leave off this sloth and laziness, putting things off till tomorrow.

   The satvic man has an inclination for good.  If the rajsic element is present, he will push on like an unruly horse which, if bridled and under control, will take him to the destination sooner. So literally, I mean these attitudes of mind are called three qualities.

   We must rise above the three qualities.  Discard the first quality [tamas] altogether. The second [rajas] helps if it is directed toward good.  If it is directed toward doing ungood or not good, such as killing, it is also dangerous. But when it is combined with the satvic side, man works wonders. These three attitudes of mind are called by different names by different Masters.  The rishis called them the names used here; the Mohammedans call them by their own names.  So these are the different attitudes of mind, that's all.  We have to rise above them.

   Of course, satva is a stepping-stone on which we have to transcend all these qualities.  These are the attitudes of the mind. We are to take up the satvic way as a stepping-stone to rise above them.  But even the satvic attitude is binding: like chains of gold or chains of iron, that's all. So we have to rise above these three attributes. In these few words, I think you'll find it to be like that. It is not very clearly given in the books, you see.

Q: What does it have to do with the third word of the charged words?

M: These have little or nothing to do with that, I tell you.  These are the three attitudes of mind that we have to transcend:  then true Spirituality begins.  Mind has a very large scope. It has the physical; it has the astral mind; and there is the causal mind; there are three different degrees. Do you see? When you transcend the three planes, that's a different thing. But mind is also in all these three planes; it is called by different names. The rishis have their own names: pindi manas, andi manas, and brahmandi manas.  The physical works in the physical body, the other in the astral body, and the third in the causal body.  We have to transcend all these three. And the qualities are the three different attitudes of mind.

Q: And on what plane for sure is there no Sound? Does the Sound ever stop?

M: Sound is going on all through creation - in all the planes.

Q: Through the fifth?

M: Through all the planes, I say.  When God came into Expression, there was Light and Sound.  There was Light; from Light proceeded Sound.  In the Beyond, in the Wordless state of God, there is no Light and there is no Sound. There is all "hush-up"; there it ends.

Q: The Sound is throughout creation?

M: Throughout creation.

Q: But where it's Nameless, there is no Sound. Is that it?

M: In the Nameless, Wordless state there is no Sound, no Light.  But that is something in Itself.  It cannot be expressed.  That's all I can say. Very few people really ask or have asked this question of the three attributes, at least in the West.  So the satvic element is the stepping-stone.  And we have to rise above it, to transcend it.

   Those who are tamsic people - those who are of the lowest degree - will do what others goad them to do: goading; they require goading. They won't do it otherwise.  When anyone does not like to do it of himself, he has to be goaded to rise up: it requires constant goading. And the rajsic person is the one who is an unruly horse: he requires bridling. That, if combined with satvic, works wonders. Rajsic just means vehemence. That's all.

   Now, all foods have their own attitudes - low attitudes or results.  Each food has its own effect.  That is why you should discard all this meat, etc.  Milk, fruits, and vegetables are satvic. And there are so many tamsic-like things in the vegetable kingdom, too. Something that causes a flaring-up is rajsic. In the Gita of Lord Krishna, they have given the three different elements and enumerated which is which.  That is why the  satvic element - the fruit diet, the strict vegetarian diet, grains and milk - is advised. These are satvic; they create the satvic element. For example, if a dog is kept on meat, it is always growling and howling,  you see?  If you keep it on vegetables, it becomes very amiable.

   So diet has a great part to play.  But it is not necessarily all. You might follow the whole diet, but mind still has to be transcended.  The diet is a helping factor, of course.

Q:  How many people do You think are vegetarians in the world?

M: I think there are vegetarians in every country. In India you'll find the majority is vegetarian.  In other countries some percentage is: you'll find 20 or 25 percent.  In India you might find fifty percent or  more, but now more meat-eaters are growing up there.  And everywhere, I think, the number of vegetarians is increasing now, on account of the World Vegetarian Council that is being held here, there, and everywhere.

Q: We probably have maybe four or five million in this country.  I don't know, because the Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarians.  There are a couple of million of those people.

M: This is what I say. In India you'll find more. The Seventh Day Adventists in the West are vegetarians, too. But generally how many Christian are vegetarians? All Protestants and Roman Catholics are meat eaters.  The Seventh Day Adventists care about it and restrict themselves to it; the Essenes, also.

Q: Maybe someday they'll have to be vegetarian because they say you can feed ten people vegetarian on the amount of land it takes for grazing to produce meat for one.  With the population growing, maybe it will be that way someday.

M:  Well, that is to be looked into. The means adopted for controlling this birth rate is defective. It is developing more debauchery. A life of continence should be developed - a life of chastity.

   Some people came up to me in India.  They said they were going to form a family planning group. You see? This is my view.  They wanted to make me president of it. I said, "Well, what will you do? Are you going to increase debauchery or stop it?"  What is family planning?  Why not take up the course of chastity? Tell them to be chaste.

   Marriage does not mean debauchery. Marriage means taking a companion in life to be with you in weal or woe. Do you see? God has united you; let God disunite.  Have a companion to help each other to know God. One duty is begetting children, but not 100 percent of your duties.

   In the olden times, when one or two children were born, people left the world and went to the forest for meditation.  And in the Bible it is said, "Husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the Church." This is what is wanted to be developed or adopted. This will save us.  Otherwise, as the population is growing every minute - there is some computation that every minute in the world there are 90 more births than deaths - after ten years, what will happen?

Q: That's where a lot of trouble is. Of course, they have these birth control pills now.

M:  Birth control pills won't help you, you see.

Q: But that's going to make things worse.

M:  More debauchery, you see.

COMMENT: Immorality.

M:  Yes, immoral life. It is not the aim of any scriptures.  No Masters gave that out.  Nowadays you talk about it.  Well, such a society will lead us to hell.  The only remedy is that we should set examples ourselves. I tell you honestly, when our brothers and sisters were born, we did not know anything about it.  We used to ask where the child came from.  And we were told, "The midwife has left it here." Do you see? So chaste was the life of our parents that we never dreamt of how children come.  And now, if you ask a small boy, he will tell you everything.  He sees everything.  So the only remedy is a chaste life.

   Two things are increasing very rapidly: one, atheism; the other, population, immorality.  Unless they turn to Spirituality, there's no hope, you see.  After ten or twenty years, what will happen? It's high time, I tell you.

Q: You say in ten, twenty years if we don't do anything, things might not be so good?

M:  Not so good!  I think man will eat man.

Q: Man will eat man?

M: Yes. Where will they grow all these things? If every minute gives you 90 extra people after deducting the number of deaths, then what will happen?

Q: That's what they say about the Chinese.  They want to go into India.

M: Well, India will go where?  Hell?  To the ocean?  Man will eat man.  What more is wanted?  What I say, what I'm telling you, I see. The purpose of my taking up this tour is only that.  Let them come to their senses.  Even if those who are initiated would stand on their own legs, even that should do some good. I tell them just to maintain spiritual diaries: they don't care. They're not living up to the diaries that are prescribed, I tell you.  There is a column there for chastity.  Nobody will tell you these things honestly, I tell you.  They consider it below their dignity, below - what do they say - morality. And the whole thing is being spoiled.

   The remedy is chastity and love for others. That's all. Love means charity, not sensual love.  I don't mean that, you see. These are the only remedies left.  Do you see?

   The number of atheists is also increasing even among those who are Christians or Hindus or Mohammedans. They are in their religions in numbers, but how many live up to them?  Do they really say prayers daily?  How many are there, tell me?  I was saying this morning, "Have little chapels in each home. Everyday, all in the home, from the little child to the elder, should sit together for an hour or so, say prayers and read something." But now, tea is required and the reading of newspapers; parents are enjoying themselves somewhere and the children are going around somewhere else.  The result is that they only take up the formal way of religion; and outer religion does not give us anything. That's the result.  You're crying against communism and don't bother crying against atheism. Do you see? We are all adrift, the majority of us.

Q: How do you find it in America, Master? Don't You think people here are quite spiritual compared to other countries?  The reason I ask this question is that statistics show that 60 or 65 percent of the Americans go to church, whereas in Europe it's only about ten percent of the people.

M:  No, no.  My point is that it is only routine - like, I tell you. They do go to church.  How many are there that really go and pray?  Do you see?  They simply say, "Everyone stand up! " One hundred, two hundred people stand up, very long rows, saying prayers, and all exerting themselves from head down to foot.  Well, living is required.  Have a prayerful mood; that's all right.  But it is only once a week: what about day-to-day?  I mean to say, give some time, morning and evening. Let them find more time, and you'll find all this changed: parents will be changed and children will be changed.

Q: That's what they used to do when this country was founded.  They lived in little log cabins, and they gathered around the family.  But the population has grown.

M:  That's the only remedy, you see.  The population is growing because they have not lived up to what the scriptures say.  You'll find what I'm telling you today after ten years.

Q: It doesn't look too good, then, for the world.

M:  The only true remedy is that at least those who are initiated stand on their own legs.  In the old days, I tell you, there were three degrees of celibates: the lowest was of those who could live celibate for at least twelve years. I' m talking about married people, not those who have left the world.  And the next higher was of those who kept celibacy for 24 years. And the first class, the highest, was 48 years' celibacy.  Would they not grow giants, physically, intellectually and in every way?

Q: How long ago were people like that?

M: In the olden times, about the time we speak of as the "rishis' time":  in the time of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, say about three or four thousand years ago.  These things are given in our  scriptures.   When the Bible says, "Husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the Church " what does it mean? Then, scriptures also say about children: "Set an example yourself.  Have one or two, that's all; and make them to be ideal people. "  Now each man on the average has, God knows, I tell you, not less than half a dozen children: on the average, I'm saying.  Some have even more, even those who are not ready to have additional children.

   What I'm telling you is no spirituality; it is a help in Spirituality. There are night clubs; excuse me, why should I go further into it? You know what happens there.

Q: A waste of time? I don't know what night clubs are.

M: A waste of time? If it were only a waste of time, it would have been better; but it is still worse.  Lives are being spoiled.

Q: I think television spoils a lot of our people. You look on while they're smoking and drinking - even the children see it.  "Take this kind of pill."

M:  I say television is spoiling us.  During this tour I met a certain group of people in Canada with a very troublesome cause (the Dukhobors - Russian Spirit Wrestlers). They don't like to send their children to the schools.   The government is pressing them to go to the schools. They say, "We don't want the education they give; we want to keep our children with us and give them our own teachings of celibacy, chastity, and a good life." The government is against them; they are being put in jail.  There's a hunger strike in Vancouver.

   And we interceded. This matter came to me and the Baron [Blomberg].  We called the Prime Minister, and he came over there.  We reconciled them.  "Let them have their own schools, their own teachers.  Why do you force them to do what is not, I mean, moral?"  What are schools doing nowadays? The teachers are not chaste, I tell you. Some children are spoiled at home, and the rest in the streets and then in the school.

   My son was brought up this way. He was reading in college, and one day his professor asked him something of a personal nature.  He came home and said, "Well, father, my professor asked me this today - was he not ashamed to ask me that?"  And that has become very normal now. I've seen that when classes of children grow older, they are free: "Everyone do what you like! "

   See this from the viewpoint I'm talking from.  Whatever I'm talking about I've seen - I had the chance to go see it.  I was invited there, so I had to go.  They are having their wines and bottles at afternoon gatherings; these are young students, young mothers.  They're free now because of our ignorance.

Q: Did I understand You to say that the Baron and You got together with the Prime Minister?

M:  Yes, yes.  He came from Ireland.  We had a talk, and they were agreed on the matter after all. There was a hunger strike, and they were dying of hunger.  We helped them with food.

Q: I remember for the last five years we've been reading about them here in America.  They used to take their clothes off.

M: Yes!

Q: And they said they were crazy. But now You tell us a different story.  They're very spiritual.

M: They're not crazy. They are spiritual. They don't want these things. Their leaders came to us; they were dying of hunger, some in prison, some outside in the cold winter. This is what is required.  Who is going to do this?

Q: Our newspapers gave us the wrong story then.

M:  That's altogether wrong. I know what happened and what has been reconciled. Now the government has agreed to give them the right.  I told them, "Why don't you give them their own schools? Let them bring up their own children in the way they like. Why do you force them to do otherwise?" And they want their children to go to those schools which are spoiled. Our whole system is wrong, I tell you.  People might tell me, "What nonsense he's speaking about these things!"  But these are common-sense points.  I am appealing to your common sense.

   Then I left, but they were reconciled; the government agreed. They were in jail, you see.  Inside the jails, they were hungry; outside they were going on a hunger strike. Some were all-naked; some had clothes, others not.  I gave them at least food for a fortnight or so, so that they might not go on hungering.  Khanna was there.  Do you remember?

COMMENT: Master gave them about 200 dollars' worth of food.

M: Yes.

Q: There are a lot of things we don't know about. Will that come in a report? That's good information.

M: The reports sometimes tell about what I'm doing in connection with the World Fellowship of Religions.

   This is also part of the spiritual life.  If we do not love the hungry and naked god moving on the earth, what will our God, Who is in heaven, do? Is this not so? This is what Christ said: "If you do not love your brother whom you see, how can you love God Whom you do not see?"  We don't go into the spirit of the teachings.  That's the pity. Then we go by the letter of the rule, that's all:  "We are Christian; we are Hindu.  Oh, heaven is reserved for us."  Who says so? A Christian is one who sees the Light of God.  And a Sikh is one who sees the Light of God. Those who do not see, cannot go to heaven.  Who says they will go?  I must be very frank, I tell you.  These are truths.  We are after Truth, you see.

   I tell you, let all the ministers of all the religions be taken away from their jobs, not paid anything.  Then let me see how many ministers there will be remaining.  They get ample money to stand on, for living, enjoying themselves, drinking and eating. And simply, for an hour or so, they cry like anything.  What is this?  I do not denounce the prayers, I tell you.  I am simply talking about the attitude they have taken.  It is like a business. Christ said when He got rid of the money changers: "Go ye out of the synagogue! You have made the house of my Father a business home."

   I saw the ceremony for our President on television (the funeral ceremony for President Kennedy).  The deacon was drinking and dispensing wine throughout.  Is that the God-intoxication?  With due deference to the system, that intoxication has been changed into another form.  That is why, when Masters come, They politely change the angle of vision. They don't force it on people, but They awaken them to what they're doing.  Do you see any truth in what I'm telling you?

DISCIPLE:  I see very clearly.

M:  Yes.  The only remedy is that we should stand on our own legs: now, not tomorrow; from this moment on! Change your lives!  Have chapels made in your homes, small chapels.  Have honest lives.  Be true to your own selves.  What more do you need?  This is what is wanting, you see.  It is not difficult to get to God, but it is difficult to make a man. One poet lqbal said,  Why did Moses go to the mountain to meet God? Was he not aware that God is Himself in search of men?"  He does not find any men.  He finds all are beasts in men.  They've beastly habits.  Beastly men with beastly habits.  They have the noble form of a man, but they're not men.  They are in the form of a Christian, but they are not true Christians.  They are in the form of a Sikh, but they are not true Sikhs. They have these outer badges, and they are not living up to what the Masters demandedof us.

Q: Master, what is meant by the frequently quoted phrase in the Bible:  "Man is made in the image and likeness of God. " Does that just refer to his soul?

M: Soul, yes. Soul. God is All-Consciousness.  Our souls are conscious entities.  God is All-Light and we are Light. We are children of Light. God is All-Wisdom and we are after wisdom.

Q: Some interpret that exteriorly. But that has no reference to the body?

M:  God is neither with form nor without form. Excuse me, if there is a meeting of buffalos sitting together, and they think of God, they will think of God as a big buffalo. (laughter) That's all. Do you see? That's how they can see. God is Light.  God is Spirit.  And, furthermore, what will you find? God is Spirit, and we are Spirit in man.  God with form and formless, both are the attributes of the Wordless state.  And what is an Expression? It is Light and Sound. That is the true Christ-Spirit.

   I gave a talk in a Unity Temple.  I told the minister that Christ also lived before Jesus and after Him. He was very quiet.  Then I asked him, "What are you thinking?" He gave me a book. It said, "We believe Christ was before Jesus and after Him.

   What is Christ?  Christ said, "I shall never leave thee nor forsake thee till the end of the world."  Christ is God Power or Guru Power or Master Power, the God-in-Expression Form that controls all creation.  When That  manifests in any human form or pole, That is the Christ Power or God Power.  It helps humanity.

Q: May I ask this question, Master? Do You think as initiates that someday or sometime in our development we'll ever find an answer as to why we were created? That's a question that is always asked.

M:  I will tell you the answer.  But may I ask you one question?


M: It is a very ordinary,  common-sense question.  Why do you beget children?

DISCIPLE:  (Long pause) Probably because everybody else does.  I don't know.

M: It's common sense: because you wish it. It's God's Will that He created.  Why did He create?  We will go to Him and ask Him. That would be a better thing to do. He would be able to explain it better. But all Masters say that it is His Will. When He sends us down, we have to abide by the rules of that plane. I am usually in India. But so long as I am here, I have to abide by your American laws. Do you see? I cannot use the law of India. In your physical plane, you have to abide by the physical law. So, "As you sow, so shall you reap. " But why did He send us down? Well, it is His Will - Pleasure. Or we will go to Him: Let us go to Him, and we will ask Him.  When you go there, then, I think, this intellect won't be with you:  not this mind will be with you.

Q: My intellect won't go with me.  Oh, oh, I won't be able to ask!

M:  Try it. I'm not putting forth any inferences by discussing it in any intellectual way.  This is common-sense talk.

Q: Many years ago an Indian sage came here, and I think I asked him that question.  He didn't answer it.  He said "That's one of the mysteries."

M: What mystery?  It is a very common-sense thing, you see. When you're physically and intellectually still, you know God.  And all of these questions are within the pale of the intellect or mind.  When you rise above it, who will have a question? You become one with Him. It is His Will. All Masters say that it is His Will.  And that's the only reply that you cangive: "Because we have been sent here. "

   "Why did He send us down?" It is His Will.  "Why did He want all this world to be made?"  Well, if you go on like that: "Where was He sitting when He made this world?  And that land - who created that land on which He was sitting? Is the seed before the tree or the tree before the seed?"  You cannot know unless you transcend the three planes and the three attributes. Then this question does not arise.  You see clearly that it is His Will.

   Before setting up a mill, the mill owner first has a wish or pleasure to do so.  Then he opens it.  After opening it, he has to abide by the  requirements of running the mill.   These considerations don't help us.  The main thing is that we are in a house that is on fire, that is burning.  "Who set the fire in there? Why did he put fire to the house?" Why not first get out and then ask and find out? Do you see?  Get out of the building and see! Then find out why he has set it. [laughter]

   We are after happiness, you see: bliss and joy.  We want to have it.  Really, that bliss or joy is within us because God is Happiness, All-Wisdom, All-Joy; He is Eternal.  And all these qualities are within us, too.  Don't you find in Corinthians that it is said, "You are spirit in man, in body. Why are you afraid that you will die"  Is it not so?  God is Eternal, and soul is also eternal.  God is All-Wisdom; we are also wise.  Everybody considers himself to be the wisest man in the world. Is it not so? It's a reflection of that.

   And everybody is after happiness.  If a man earns money, collects possessions, builds buildings and courts, what is it for? For happiness.  But this happiness is only temporary; it changes. Real happiness lies within us.  So long as we are identified with an outside thing, for the time being we feel happiness. Otherwise, when it is withdrawn, or we are withdrawn, we are unhappy.  So let us be happy first.  Do you see?

Q: Master, I hear one question over and over again.  The Christians have the idea that they meet their loved ones when they pass on.  The general Christian attitude is that when they leave here they go to heaven and they're going to meet their father, mother, children, wife, husband...

M: I tell you.  It is common sense.  Use your common sense.  I have come here.  If my friends have already come here, I will meet them.  But if they have gone to Africa?

DISCIPLE:  That's it.  I tell them I don't know how many wives and husbands I have up there.

M: And what will be the fate of those who have had so many marriages?  Just think for a moment: after the physical body, we live in the astral planes.  You can meet those who are in that plane, not those who have gone up or gone back. That is very common sense.  And there is life after death, very definitely: as I am here, not in India.

   They do meet.  This is what spiritualism is about: you can contact them.  But sometimes, if they do not appear, you are misguided. Spiritualists act and pose. They impersonate. That is not reliable. In London I went to one man who was a spiritualist. He would call souls, and they would talk, they would speak.  His fee was five pounds.  "All right, we'll pay." I went there. There were also about three or four people with me.  He shut us in a room and also sat there with us. It was all dark, pitch dark inside. It continued that way: ten minutes, fifteen minutes, half an hour - a full hour passed by.  Nobody came up.  That spiritualist was considered to be the best. Then I offered him the regular fee. He said, "No, I won't charge you."

   "Well, why?"

   "Well, the atmosphere was not correct."

   So, the higher spirits cannot be contacted.  The lower or average spirits can be contacted.  But they cannot be wiser than when they left the body, you see. If I go out of this room, or you go out of this room, do you mean that by going out we become angels? You become whatever you have developed.

   In spiritism, they do harm. For instance, those spirits that are drunkards will enter the bodies of drunkards. Those that are very angry will enter wrathful souls.  These are what are called "bad spirits," as  Christ referred to them. This is spiritism. Things are very clear as daylight, even at the level of common sense.

Q: I would like to ask a question, Master.

M: Yes, yes, yes, yes.  Come up!

Q: During meditation, when may we stop repeating the Holy Names?

M:  When we become God.

Q: You mean, when you see the Radiant Form of the Master?

M:  I did not say the word.  I used the word God.

DISCIPLE:  Well then, the Radiant Form of the Master is God.

M:  The Names are to be used for testing at least, because there are negative apparitions, too.  Test the genuineness of the Master by repeating the Five Names. Then it's all right.

Q: And then you may not repeat Them anymore if He stands?

M: Then, whatever He says, do it.  He cannot be with you all along the twenty-four hours of the day and night.

Q: I was wondering, why do we have to leave so quickly?  We go down here again; we come back again.

M: That is because, you see, we are not yet accustomed to staying there.  It happens only once in a while or we go and come back. Our connection, the astral cord (the "silver cord"), is not broken.  We have to come back.  Naturally that connection with the Inner Form is cut off.  Sometimes It appears with open eyes, too. That is a very much higher, advanced state. But generally, we go and come, go and come.

   There was a Mohammedan Saint, Maulana Rumi, Whose time of death came up. He was in His meditation, and some friends of His came in and prayed to God, "O God, let Him recover."  He opened His eyes: "This recovery is for you. I don't want it."

   They said, "We have prayed for Your recovery.  Why don't You want it?"  He said, "I used to snatch away some time from my busy hours to come in contact with God and be in His lap. Now the last moment has come that this body will stand between me and God; this body is going to be eliminated altogether. Wouldn't you like me to go into the Lap of the Father and remain there forever?"  Do you see the angle of vision? Different.

   Saints do live in the world: They are bound there, I tell you honestly. They would like to go back, but They're under orders. Do you see? Whenever They have to go back, They say, "Don't ask us to stay here. "

   People generally told our Master [Baba Sawan Singh Ji], "Pray to Your Master to let You remain here. "

   "I'm not going to ask Him!"


   "I would like to go back."

   When Baba Jaimal Singh's last day came, He said, "Don't say anything about my remaining here.  I' m going to go. "  Did not Christ say, "I'm going to my Father?"  Pity it is that we judge these things from our own level.  We have not realized that state. Those Who come with a commission have Their own level of thinking.

   We attach too much importance to outside things. Today we have planes that fly 32 thousand, 40 thousand feet high. From that height, even rivers appear to be like very small lines or gutters. When you rise above, all these things become insignificant. Now these appear to be the most important and foremost things.  You would not spare an hour from your job, compared to your spiritual advancement. I do see: "Well, I cannot get leave; I have to go to the job. I have no time to attend your talk."

Q: Master, if Your devotees are not able to rise above the body-consciousness adequately, are they saved when they pass on?

M:  The point is, by putting in regular time in the spiritual practices, you become like wood that appears all right from the outside, but within is all eaten away by ants. Those who devote their time by coming in contact with the Light and Sound Principle are naturally inwardly cut off, unattached. Do you see? The real attachment begins to be with God and with the higher planes.  Such-like souls are not to return, because they are not attached to the world.  They are kept in the higher planes and advance further. Those who do not do anything at all - they take the talents and bury them underground - have to come back; but not below the man-body, because in the man-body only, this can develop.

   So, those who, for instance, have advanced to the third state will go directly to the third plane. Those who have advanced one, will go one.  You'll find that those who are initiated are fed up with worldly things. Outwardly they are doing things; but still, in their hearts they want to leave. This is but natural.  When we sit by fire, naturally cold will leave us. We have to go where we are attached. If we are attached to higher things, then naturally we are not to return; we are to develop from there.  And whatever stage we have developed now, we will go straight up to at death.

Q: I heard through some source that even if you only love the Master with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind, and you cannot withdraw, that you are still saved when you pass on.

M:  I tell you, I tell you.  Hear me.  You are attached to what? To the God in the Master.  What is a Master? "The Word was made flesh."  If you have love for Him, where will you go?  Where He will go.  If He is truly a Master, you'll go and not come back; you'll go where He goes: to the higher planes.  At least you won't come to the earth again.  This is but natural.  Why do we come back again and again to creation? Because we are attached. But how many are there who are really attached to the Master? Tell me.  Very few. Only they who see the God in Him, who see that He is a God in man, are attached to Him; otherwise, generally not.  I think, what more is left after that? One who is really attached to the Master in this way has not to come back to the earth, but he has to develop further. "As you think, so you become."  "It is I, not now I, but Christ lives in me."  Something like that. If we love the Master, should we not obey His orders?

Q: Yes.  But why can't we always?

M:  We can, if we really love the Master.  Take a worldly example:  If you have love for somebody, you simply respond to an inkling of what he wants; he need not speak to you. Is it not  so?  Christ  said,  "If you love me, keep my commandments." And further, He said, "Let my words abide in you, and you abide in me."  What does it mean?  How can you abide in Him?  You react on the one of whom you really think. Do you see?  You develop receptivity.  "As you think, so you become."  And don't transcend any orders.  This is true love.

Q: Master, some initiates years ago used to say - I have said the same thing to others when discussing the Path of the Masters - that the most often even the worst initiate has to come back into the man-body on this earth would be three times: because the Master next time will put him in a better environment where he can develop spiritually. Is that true?

M: This is true only of those who are tamsic. The meaning of tamsic was discussed in the very first question that was put.  Why should they wait for three births?  Why not do it in one birth?  Simply obey His orders.  He says, "Have pure lives;" then have pure lives.  He says, "Put in regular time for meditation and come in contact with the God Power within." You'll see; you are not to return.  If, in one year, you can move from one class to a higher class, why can you not, in one year, step up one state?  Because we are not sincerely doing it; that's all, I would say.  Of course, the disciple, or the initiate, should not be in a hurry to advance; but if the teacher wants him to advance, then there's no shame.  Times have changed.  And a student can also pass two classes in one year - and every three months, too.

Q: Master, could I ask You a question?

M: One? Hundreds, you see.

Q: In his book, Dr. Julian Johnson said that one year of meditation on this plane is worth a hundred on the higher planes. Is that true?

M:  Yes.  Here you can advance higher. There it takes years; here it takes months. You can have quicker results in the earthly life.

   Do you know that that book was revised by me? The original book was not issued by him.

Q:  It was written by You, Master?

M: It was written by him, but revised by me.  Three manuscripts were written by him.  They were written in a missionary spirit as he wrote the Christian part of it; he put the Christian part in a very drastic way. One copy of the manuscript was given to me, one to Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh, and the third to Professor Jag Mohan Lal.  Professor Jag Mohan Lal never returned it. And Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh returned it with very strong strictures about that.  Dr. Johnson would not listen to it. So it came to my part. I told my Master, "Because he is not fully aware of all these things, it appears that that is why he has not been able to write about all this."  Then I went to him: "Well, look here, Dr. Johnson. I appreciate the efforts you have made in bringing out this manuscript, but it appears that here and there you are not in the full know of things. That is why you have not been able to do full justice to the work."

    Dr. Johnson said, "I would like to know."  All other portions on religions were put in the same way as the Christian portion:  Hindus do not know; Mohammedans do not know; Sikhs do not know. I gave him quotations from the Hindu, Sikh, and Mohammedan scriptures; and he revised those portions. And I asked him to polish down the Christianity portion. He said, "No, no. My brothers in the West won't wake up until I put it that way." This is what he said.

   Now that book has been revised, and a short edition has been issued by them because that part was not relished by the Christians.  That was revised, but the revised portion was not given to me; he died in the meantime.  That was published as is. But anyhow, many things were set right.

   Once one lady applied for initiation.  She came across a part of the book in which he had referred to something about Negroes. She threw away the book: "I don't want the kind of initiation given in this book!"

   Now an abridged edition written by him has been issued. He was a missionary.  Of course, with due deference to him, he had remained in India for six or seven years.

   So that is true.  What you can do now will take a longer time to do in the higher planes.

DISCIPLE: That frightens me to think of how hard I have to work.

M:  That is what I am complaining about: the people don't get it.  One day or one hour off from the job - they are more important.  We read every day in the scriptures, "Is not the body more than the raiment, and life more than meat?" Why do you read those things? "What does it profit a man if one gains the possessions of the whole world and loses one's own soul?" These words were meant for us, I think. That does not mean you should not work. You must work. Stand on your own legs; earn your livelihood.

DISCIPLE: I meant the meditation.

M: No, no! I' m not stopping that. Do that. But out of 24 hours, put in two, three, four hours for meditation. You're not working, I think, 24 hours of the day and night. Ordinarily, you work six hours, eight hours, ten hours.  How many hours do you put in for the job?  I think not more than that - or maybe twelve hours; not more in any case.  Then what about the remaining twelve hours? I give you twelve hours' time for the job.

DISCIPLE:  Eight hours when people work, and two hours getting to work.

M:  No, no.  I mean to say, I think that hardly anybody is working more than twelve hours a day.


M: Then take it that you have to put in twelve hours a day.  What about the other twelve hours? Just put in two or three hours of meditation from those.  Do you see?  If you get sick, God forbid, you don't go to your job. Why can you not take a day off for spiritual things? Does not this spirituality cost even one day's pay?  Tagore, a great poet of international fame, said, "O, God, I see there is a great worth in You. You are a priceless jewel. Why cannot I throw away the dirt of my house?" We have to change our angle of vision.  Mind deceives us.  Out of 24 hours, I think you can very safely devote two, three, or four hours to meditation.

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